adamjosey's B20B3

Doing lotsa work, or just replacing your bumper, tell us and show us here...

Moderators: kenco, SiR_chris, Glovermx, lxstuart, sol'd out, delsolchippy, Del sol 1997, Paulm, solman

adamjosey's B20B3

Postby adamjosey » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:55 pm

So guys been a while since I have been active on the forum, so apologise there! Had a absolutely mental 6 months since JAE and not really had a huge amount of time to spend on the Sol's.

As some of you maybe aware I bought johnrnugent B20 off him as he could no longer carry on with it sadly due to his health.

So I have had the B20 now since last April and sadly have not been able to do very many miles in her! To date I have so far only managed to do 343 miles in her!

The list of unforeseen issues with the car is quite long sadly and I have been battling on trying to sort her rather than give up and break the car.

To date I have come across the following problems with the car...

1. Leak on brake system on Master Cylinder and back left caliper - resolved replaced brake lines with braided hoses and redid pipe work to master cylinder.

2. One wheel stud bolt fractured on back right wheel due to wheel nuts being over tighten to the extreme, replaced studs with new one.

3. Gearbox held on by two bolts, all other bolt holes on gearbox and engine block stripped due to over tightening of bolts. To resolve this issue I removed the engine from the car, once the engine was out of the car I soon discovered a oil breather line had been trapped between the gearbox bell housing and engine block. The car had been into DNR for a clutch change when it was in John's hands, its clear they trapped the oil line and over tighten all the bolt holes trying to close the gap between the gearbox and engine block. I had to re heli coil the majority of the bolt holes in the engine block to fix the problem and increase the size of the bolts use to secure the gearbox to the block. In addition all of the lower brackets and bolts were missing from the underside of the engine, thankfully Luke (Solman) sorted me out with some new brackets and bolts.

4. Engine mount (gearbox) nylon bush pushed out and mount twisted. Due to the gearbox not being on quite straight due to the trapped lines the engine mount had come slightly twisted. Once gearbox was back on correctly I could not get the engine mount to fit back on. The mount had been heated up and bent to fit when gearbox was not fitted right... so ended up getting Warwick Uni engineering department to make a mount up for me to fit reusing the nylon bush.

5. Cooling issue, the radiator used in the B20 set up was the original VXI radiator (same as a ESi), this rad was far to small and ended up with the fan constantly running to keep the engine at the right temp. Ended up replacing radiator with a ITR rad from Tegiwa and added a double puller fan set up.

6. Breather Catch system, this was an extremely interesting set up which seemed to all but do not a lot... complete reworked system and added a filtered system running three lines, two from the rocker cover and one from the back of the block.

7. Clocks (speedo)... this sadly read 10mph faster than what you were actually doing, this was down to the needle being pushed on in slightly the wrong place. Ended up swapping the clocks for another set.

8. Earth on engine, I discovered the car was only earthed on the cylinder head and was missing the gearbox earth strap. I added a earth strap to the gearbox and ran a further 6 earth straps to various points all over the engine. This made the car run a hell a lot smoother at tick over and seemed to make it pull better under load (5th gear pull from 40 to 70mph).

Whilst going through and basically putting the engine right I discovered the parts John thought had been put in the car hadn't. The clutch was still a blueprint clutch, not a fancy carbon/Kevlar stage 2 clutch. John had thousands upon thousands of receipts for labour and parts which sadly just had not been either fitted to the car or done. The only parts that seemed to of been uprated were the ones that were actually visual with out taking the engine apart. The other thing I quickly found out was the person who did all the work did not own or had heard of a torque wrench... their idea of torqued up was tighten the bolts until the won't tighten anymore or the heads snap off.

So after sorting out the above I managed to get the car down to JAE without a hitch last September, the car drove well and had a good pull through all of the gears due to the increased amount of torque compared to a b16.

The car was not as quick as I was expecting compared to say a equivalent powered car of the same sort of weight, but it was still a lot faster than a SiR B16A.

About a week after JAE I took the car out for a spin into town and it drove fine, I did around 20 miles and drove home. I then picked my brother up and took him for a run up the road, now due to the amount of speed camera vans around were I live I went quite steady. I got about two miles away from home and whilst in 5th doing about 50-55mph when the car started to lose power. I then stopped and turned the car round and started heading back home. The power lost was extremely gradual with the car gently losing speed until I could not get the car to go any faster than 30 to 35 mph, at the same time a metallic ticking noise started from the front of the car. The ticking noise got louder and louder, the louder it got the less power the car had until the engine cut out. Whilst rolling on the road to my house I restarted the car, the car fired back up and run, but only when a the accelerator was slightly pressed, the car would not run on its own accord.

At this point the metallic ticking noise was quite loud. I got my brother to jump out and I popped the bonnet. While the car was running with the accelerator slightly pressed bringing the revs up to 1500 rpm. We both agreed the metallic noise seemed to be coming from the top of the engine. I then turned the car off.
I then spent time trying to work out what had gone wrong with the car and after a number of calls I then concluded until I took the head off I would not know if there had been any damage as I suspected that a valve had dropped. A point to note is that I compression tested each cylinder and the results came out at 190 to 200 per cylinder.

Since then the car has sat on the drive untouched until today.

I took the head off the car and found that there was no sign of any contact between the valves or pistons. The crank turned over freely leaving me completely confused to why there was a metallic metal on metal noise at the top of the engine. The next odd thing was upon removing the VTEC solenoid I found the filter was full of copper blocking the filter up. However I did not find any copper in any other part of the engine. I drained the engine oil out and it came out clean with out any bits or copper in it. So all in all I am very confused to what is wrong with the engine, I assume it must be bottom end? But I don't know why the crank and pistons move smoothly!

I'll put up some pictures, so you guys can see where I am at with it all.
Image
adamjosey
Regular
Regular
Progress to next rank:
55.3%
 
14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Worcester

1998 Honda Delsol
Drives: 98 ESi TT, 95 ESi TT, 93 SiR TT & a 92 SiR TT

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby adamjosey » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:27 pm

Image

Before engine removal

Image

Half way out

Image

Drilling rad mounts

Image

Cutting Center "support" bar on slam panel

Image

Re welding rad mounts

Image

Checking line up of new double rad

Image

Re breather issue

Image

Re breather issue 2

Image

Re breather issue 3

Image

Engine going back in

Image

Back in

Image

In

Image

B20 and B16

Image

New rad bracket thanks to West Mercia Police Workshop

Image

Post further engine issue, after engine started losing power... Compression tests...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Adjustable timing gear

Image

Each piston

Image

Image

Image

Image



childrens toy solenoid

Image

childrens toy solenoid

Image

High compression pistons - RS Machine Race Spec B20 84MM ITR Piston Set Type R 84 - look rather OEM to me

Image
Image
adamjosey
Regular
Regular
Progress to next rank:
55.3%
 
14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Worcester

1998 Honda Delsol
Drives: 98 ESi TT, 95 ESi TT, 93 SiR TT & a 92 SiR TT

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby skitz » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:17 pm

Looks like a but of a mess. Suprised to see that coming out of dnr.

rs pistons are cast and look oem. Id say they were rsm pistons
03 Nighthawk Black CTR track car.
User avatar
skitz
Ye' Almighty!
Ye' Almighty!
 
19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership
 
Posts: 4247
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:31 pm
Location: kettering

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby adamjosey » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:44 pm

I was surprised too, especially with amount of money spent by John there.

The overall workmanship is of a low standard, cut corners everywhere!

What do you think to the gunk and copper bits in vtec solenoid?
Image
adamjosey
Regular
Regular
Progress to next rank:
55.3%
 
14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Worcester

1998 Honda Delsol
Drives: 98 ESi TT, 95 ESi TT, 93 SiR TT & a 92 SiR TT

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby skitz » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:10 pm

Im a bit of a loss there. Theres nothing made of copper in the engine. Unless someone used copper grease on something but that would be a bit weird
03 Nighthawk Black CTR track car.
User avatar
skitz
Ye' Almighty!
Ye' Almighty!
 
19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership
 
Posts: 4247
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:31 pm
Location: kettering

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby Glovermx » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:52 pm

Copper could be from the main / rod bearings. Presumably with the engine work done they could of been replaced with one of the aftermarket options that contain copper.
My Ongoing Vti Project Here
User avatar
Glovermx
DelSolUK Site Admin
DelSolUK Site Admin
 
15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership15 years of membership
 
Posts: 2827
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire

1992 Honda Delsol
Drives: 2004 Nissan 350Z Gun Metal Silver

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby adamjosey » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:56 am

Yep the main bearings contain copper after a bit of research...

John bought ACL Race series Main-Rods-Bearings ( XF Racing )

http://www.aclperformance.com.au/docs/A ... arings.pdf

This may explain all the copper bits in vtec solenoid filter.

So I guess that means that the sump off and look to see whats gone wrong.

Or do you guys think its best to take engine back out again and strip it?
Image
adamjosey
Regular
Regular
Progress to next rank:
55.3%
 
14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Worcester

1998 Honda Delsol
Drives: 98 ESi TT, 95 ESi TT, 93 SiR TT & a 92 SiR TT

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby skitz » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:40 am

id whip it out in the case and take a good look at the bearings ! if theres shavings in the oil there not going to be in good condition
03 Nighthawk Black CTR track car.
User avatar
skitz
Ye' Almighty!
Ye' Almighty!
 
19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership
 
Posts: 4247
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:31 pm
Location: kettering

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby solman » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:11 am

Take it out, you don't find that quantity of unexpected objects in you motor without trouble. Take the filter off and cut it open before if you like first, that could be all over the engine :(
Did you know DSUK are on:

Image Image Image Image

Image
User avatar
solman
DelSolUK Site Admin
DelSolUK Site Admin
 
18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership
 
Posts: 5416
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:58 pm
Location: Bath
Drives: Crystal Black FK8

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby adamjosey » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:28 am

Agreed, taking the engine out again and stripping down is next stop... I will cut the oil filter too to see whats inside of there as when I drained the engine oil it was clean. So if the main rod bearings have gone, then this engine rebuild has not lasted at all well that Daz at DNR completed.

Think I try and take it out and this Sunday, make assessment on the damage and decide it its worth saving the engine and rebuilding again, swap out engine for another motor or break the car and recover the £1800 spent buying the car and the futher £1000 putting the car right already so far. Sadly its been a very dissappointing buy this car and just goes to show over £13k in receipts for parts and work means nothing if the bloke doing the work is as crap as this car seems to be proving to me. Looking back at the past posts on the forum the car has had a history of issues and problems. To be fair Alison did warn me!
Image
adamjosey
Regular
Regular
Progress to next rank:
55.3%
 
14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Worcester

1998 Honda Delsol
Drives: 98 ESi TT, 95 ESi TT, 93 SiR TT & a 92 SiR TT

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby skitz » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:51 pm

If you want a b18c4 to drop in. Give me a shout :D

tbh ive only heard good things about dazs work. So many mistakes on 1 car seems a bit out of character
03 Nighthawk Black CTR track car.
User avatar
skitz
Ye' Almighty!
Ye' Almighty!
 
19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership19 years of membership
 
Posts: 4247
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:31 pm
Location: kettering

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby adamjosey » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:02 pm

Well John had no mechnical no how, and paid for anything that he wanted doing to the car.

The majority of issues with the car relate back to work done by DNR sadly.

I have had loads of mixed messages about Daz, but I can only go by what I have seen.

Whats the mileage and price of the b18 you have? Do you have ECU as well? Will bare it in mind when taking b20 apart.
Image
adamjosey
Regular
Regular
Progress to next rank:
55.3%
 
14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Worcester

1998 Honda Delsol
Drives: 98 ESi TT, 95 ESi TT, 93 SiR TT & a 92 SiR TT

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby hoppi05 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:58 pm

Man that workmanship sounds fking awful the poor lad must be gutted I understand your pain with buying a car that wasn't what it seemed its quite guttering knowing you have to keep putting money in to it just to drive it and enjoy it plus it's a Honda so you know once in its life it was reliable and well built just parts have tinkered with it and not taken care... Anyway moan over lol

Good luck with getting this back on the road my bottom end is starting to go on my b16 so one if this happens to me I know what it is....
User avatar
hoppi05
DelSol UK Addict!
DelSol UK Addict!
Progress to next rank:
3.7%
 
18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership18 years of membership
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:24 pm

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby adamjosey » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:24 am

We'll when I get engine out I'll make a judgement call on what I am going to do... I'll ping up some pics of what the bottom end looks like in terms of any damage... If it looks sound then I'll be even more confused as the timing was bang on.
Image
adamjosey
Regular
Regular
Progress to next rank:
55.3%
 
14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership14 years of membership
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:32 pm
Location: Worcester

1998 Honda Delsol
Drives: 98 ESi TT, 95 ESi TT, 93 SiR TT & a 92 SiR TT

Re: adamjosey's B20B3

Postby sol'd out » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:07 pm

adamjosey wrote: Looking back at the past posts on the forum the car has had a history of issues and problems. To be fair Alison did warn me!


And did you listen???? :evil:

Seriously though, I'm really sad this hasn't worked out for you. Yes, you took a risk but with everything John spent there is no way it should have come out like this. These are not little niggles, this is major corner cutting. Even I can see that!

John paid DNR a lot of money to do a job he didn't have the knowledge or expertise to do himself and they appear to have taken advantage of him. There is a lesson to be learned here (a very tough, expensive one!) that if you're putting your trust and handing over your money to someone else to do major work like this and you have no knowledge about what they're doing for you, it can go wrong.

I'd strip the engine again Adam. Knowing you, there's no way you're going to be happy driving round without knowing exactly what's going on here. Assess the damage and make an informed decision. It's just such a shame it's come to this. :cry:
Image
User avatar
sol'd out
DelSolUK Hero
DelSolUK Hero
 
16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership16 years of membership
 
Posts: 5733
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Herts

1996 Honda Delsol
Drives: 1996 frost white VGi

Next

Return to Ongoing Projects


cron