SiR_Chris' - Overhaulin' H2B Build

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SiR_Chris' - Overhaulin' H2B Build

Postby SiR_chris » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:33 am

Thought it was about time I put up this project thread.... :lol:

Having had my sol now for just over 5yrs :shock: , the lack of pure power and torque of the 1.6 has started to take its toll and as such I have created this project thread to document my quest for more! Don't get me wrong, the B16 is an absolutely incredible engine in standard form and I really do love it. It's just that I'm more than used to the powerband now and I basically want more when I put my foot down (maybe this feeling has heightened since owning the S2K too :twisted: )! Ultimately, I had a choice to make: sell up and get a new car, or hang on to it and improve the performance.

Having researched into alternative cars within budget, I always came back to the sol - I know I'd regret selling up. So there was only one choice for me..

I've looked into as many possible routes for power as possible, which I won't bore you with as most of them are discussed here in depth on DSUK anyway but they ranged from the usual suspects of forced induction, B18 type r swaps, B20, even K20 conversions. But the one I ended up choosing for a variety of reasons is something that has not been done in a sol very often in the UK before (if at all) which to be honest was a very appealing factor to me! 8)

To this end, I have decided to go with the Honda Prelude H22A engine swap - but not with the H-Series transmission. I am using a custom 'H2B' adapter kit made in the states which enables me to retain my short ratio b-series gearbox (Y21) :wink:
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby SiR_chris » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:36 am

From the un-informed you will hear that the additional weight of an H22 makes the car handle like a barge and as a result has the stigma of an un-wise conversion choice. Having researched this in greater depth and speaking with owners who have performed the swap in the US (and who regularly autocross their cars-not drag strips only), this apparent assumption is quite unfounded :?

Weights taken from a member on HT on the same set of scales are below for reference:

B16 Short Block: 104lbs (47.17kg)
H22 Short Block: 123lbs (55.79kg)
Y21 Transmission: 90lbs (40.82kg)
H22 Transmission: 96lbs (43.54kg)

Head weights were not documented but were considered to be no more than 10lbs difference (4.54kg). This equates to a total of 13kg weight difference. I will check this myself, and re-weigh all assemblies throughout my build for ultimate clarification but as you can see, the total difference in weight is not as much as one would initially expect - comparing to a B18 and/or a full turbo conversion for example would be even less of a difference, if any :!: . However, the fact that the H22 long block is slightly taller marginally increases the centre of gravity (not a lot however as most of the weight is in the bottom end). Removing the full aircon assy and relocating the battery to the boot, lightened fly, stainless mani., no balance shafts etc. etc. should help minimise this weight difference up front. Upgrading the suspension with adjustable coilovers and an array of other chassis mods, will all but cancel out the minimal increase in front end weight (hopefully not all of it as I'm half hoping it will help with traction :twisted: !). In my opinion the swap will also likely improve the total weight distribution of the car as mine has the heavier TT mechanism in the rear. :wink:

Going with the H22a, power will be raised from my current (dyno reading) of 168.9bhp and 108lb/ft to approximately 197bhp and 155lb/ft 8) I had intended on leaving the engine internals OEM for a while (more on that later!), so this would be a straight out the box standard to standard comparison. Remember, there's no replacement for displacement!! :arrow:

Not only does the H22 offer a great improvement in power and torque, the major advantage with going H2B is the fact I can utilise ALL B-series components with the obvious exception of the engine. This includes the clutch, flywheel, tranny, starter motor, engine mounts, axles and my existing gearlinkage (basically everything in the gear-train from the fly back is B-series).

The obvious plus with all this is that not only does it reduce cost (as I have the B16 already) and the fact there are more readily available aftermarket parts for B-series components, is that my Y21 will offer a shorter final drive and gear ratios. The H Series transmission is also well known to suffer from 5th gear grinding, uses a cable mechanism instead of hydro (hydro considered to provide a better 'feel'), plus the big advantage of not requiring to cut out the chassis for the shifter cables. The H22 box such as the M2B4 also adds to the slight extra weight as previously discussed.

Using the chosen adapter plate (QSD, a US company) the axle angles are also aligned in the exact OEM B-series position (eradicating life issues due to crazy axle angles found with the straight H22 conversions and other adapter plates/kits on the market such as Evolution Industries), as well as a more OEM clutch fork and slave cylinder position :idea:

The conversion can in theory be done on a relatively tight budget too (H22A engines can be found very easily for approx £200-300) - an affordable, relatively high power N/A conversion with lots of headroom for further modification and power. :mrgreen:
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby SiR_chris » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:38 am

So, moving away from the reasons I chose this particular conversion - let's get on to the actual swap itself. This is not a straight forward swap! Come on, you didn't expect all of the advantages listed above to not come at a price did you?! As I go through the project I'll touch upon the many custom machining operations, grinding, shaving and banging (literally) to get this larger motor to fit within the EG delsol bay :shock: . This is the main reason most people do not embark on this project - but I like a challenge!! :o :?

But first comes the shopping list. I'm a bit anal in the fact that I like to have the majority of required parts ordered and in my hands before I embark on a project, especially as I'd intended to use my car in its current state up to the last possible moment and did not want to wait around for parts inbound from the USA. Please note that a lot of this stuff is not absolutely necessary to get the engine in and running..
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Parts include such things as:

- QSD Kit
- Alternator Relocation Bracket
- Slimline PCV extension
- Balance Shaft Removal Kit
- H23A Manual Tensioner Parts
- Magnecor KV-85 HT Leads
- Walbro Fuel Pump
- Innovative 60A Engine Mounts
- ACT Heavy Duty Clutch
- ACT Streetlite Flywheel
- Quaife ATB LSD
- All new OEM Honda parts (bearings, rings, thrust washers etc.)
- Honda crank pulley
- Blueprint Gasket Sets
- Blueprint Water Pump
- Honda OEM oil pump
- P28 ECU
- ARP headstuds & rod bolts
- GE Fuel Rail
- GE Cam End Seal
- New NGK Platinum Spark Plugs
- Magnetic Sump and Gearbox Oil Plug

And I still have more parts to buy when funds allow!

The first thing I bought - a mint 50k H22A, which I heard, saw running, and did compression tests on before helping the owner remove it from the prelude's engine bay (Thanks to Ammo on PUK):

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Compression test readings;

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Very healthy readings :)

Whilst I was researching into the best components to use and waiting patiently for most of them to turn up from the States, this allowed me to sort out my garage. So here's where all the stress and head scratching will commence :)

From this:

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To this:

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Friends have mentioned it's like a mum-to-be preparing the nursery! :lol: :oops:
I have decided to rebuild the engine with all new seals/gaskets/pumps etc. even though it has only done 50K for a few reasons:

1) To gain knowledge on my first engine build (other than a SOHC 1.4 Astra engine!) and to learn more about this H22A with a hands on approach (best way)
2) I want to inspect the head/valves/pistons/bores/bearing oil clearances etc.
3) I need to remove the crankshaft anyway to remove the balance shafts.

My plan was to also rebuild to OEM spec. - reusing the standard pistons, rods etc. main reason being my budget! (however this plan has changed fairly recently - more on that later :oops: )

The next few stages will be picture based so you don't have to listen to me waffle on - you know the general story of engine building anyway and I certainly don't want to preach as I am in no way a qualified or heavily experienced mechanic :shock: :)
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby skitz » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:48 am

glad you have made this post. i have been looking into doing this in my coup recently so i will be following with interest.
If you need a hand with anything let me know as Im not adverse to getting my hands dirty
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby skitz » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:49 am

ps. nice garage setup with i had that much room :) throw all that carlsberg away and buy some real beer
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby SiR_chris » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:50 am

^^ Cheers Skitz - dont give me your mob as I'll be ringing you at random times with random questions when they pop in ma head :lol:


So, time to disassemble the engine.

Head Off:

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Bores & pistons are a bit coked :shock: No scoring in the cylinders tho which is all good. Only a hone required and no rebore (to be confirmed by machine shop obviously)

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Plugs (rich mixture?):
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New and old thrust washers:
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Oil pump/water pump/crank shaft/pistons etc all removed (no photo's to bore you with).

Balance shafts removed:
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Remaining parts were all stripped off block and sent out to be honed. This pic is the block back from being honed (these engines have FRM cylinder walls and as such require a very specific honing procedure). Thanks to Sutton Rebore for doing a fine job:
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby SiR_chris » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:56 am

skitz wrote:ps. nice garage setup with i had that much room :) throw all that carlsberg away and buy some real beer


:lol: I think this garage was the ONLY reason I bought the house lol
And yeh - only had carlsberg at the time :( But I think it needs to be stocked with more red bull than anything.... :D


Will post up some more bits tomorrow I'm tired and off to bed :)
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby skitz » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:51 am

SiR_chris wrote:^^ Cheers Skitz - dont give me your mob as I'll be ringing you at random times with random questions when they pop in ma head :lol:


you know where if you need to ask anything, no guarantee i can help as i havnt had a great deal to do with h22`s.
looks like you have done plenty of research and have everything in hand anyway :)
are you planning on just hammering the frame rail for clearance or putting a box section in ? ive been wondering if you put a box section in it would be possible to do the cambelt etc. with the engine in, as i believe its an engine out job with this conversion

if your offering passenger rides when its done i`l put my name on the list.
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby wdb » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:01 am

looking good mate. :) loving the fridge full of beer :lol:
"car of wonder, speed of light, my sol will set the road alight, vtec reeling, what a feeling, loving the madness of hondas might"! :lol:

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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby Paulm » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:01 am

so i read through that and theres a few bits missing young man.....

like you havent told us when your sol was last on the road....

and how long has this taken so far......



only cos i know :lol:
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby Glovermx » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:33 pm

Seamed to of kept this one quiet Chris! Seams to be an intereting project. Keep the pics coming :D
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby solman » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:46 pm

no fair, you've been saving this up! :) good luck duder.
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby tooley » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:08 pm

been waiting for this post for a while now :D
how much do you reakon will this set up cost you in total ?
and do you know what sort of 0 - 60 time you should be hitting with that added power ?
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby SiR_chris » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:53 pm

skitz wrote:are you planning on just hammering the frame rail for clearance or putting a box section in ? ive been wondering if you put a box section in it would be possible to do the cambelt etc. with the engine in, as i believe its an engine out job with this conversion

if your offering passenger rides when its done i`l put my name on the list.


Hey dude. Current plan is: Get the hammer out.... :lol: Once the engine is all in and working I'll be taking it all out again (prob next winter) to get the bay fully tucked and smoothed. When that happens I have the opportunity to make a box section. But I've kind of come to terms with engine out timing belt jobs....

wdb wrote:looking good mate. :) loving the fridge full of beer :lol:


Only problem with a fridge full of beer is that it doesn't stay full for long haha

Paulm wrote:so i read through that and theres a few bits missing young man.....

like you havent told us when your sol was last on the road....

and how long has this taken so far......


only cos i know :lol:


All in good time mate haha. But yes, due to my OEM clutch going out on me it's been off the road for far too long now!! Still, not long to go now I hope...! My goal is to get it all tuned and spot on by Japfest 2011 :) The funny thing is, in that picture of the H22 you can see my unfinished dash on the floor next to it..... :lol:

tooley wrote:been waiting for this post for a while now :D
how much do you reakon will this set up cost you in total ?
and do you know what sort of 0 - 60 time you should be hitting with that added power ?


Cheers for the comments guys it's been a long time coming. Total Cost: I don't want to add it up tbh. But I know it CAN in THEORY be done quite cheaply. The most expensive part is the QSD kit ($600 plus delivery from states for a few bits of metal). This hasn't turned into a budget build tho now as my future posts will show.... :roll: :lol: :oops:
0-60, probably only a little bit better tbh as I think it will just spin in 1st and 2nd off the line for sure. But we'll see
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Re: SiR_Chris' Quest for Power

Postby SiR_chris » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:56 pm

As touched upon earlier, my initial plan was to reuse the OEM pistons and rods. However.. whether my subconscious did not want to do this or not I don't know, but when I was cleaning my last piston before sending off to be balanced, I dropped it. :evil:

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Although this could probably be rectified, it has given me the opportunity to rethink my plans. I HAD wanted to build a SECOND block to a higher power level whilst I was driving the standard compression engine (JDM is 10.6:1). I thought to myself, it will be cheaper and less hassle in the long run if I only built the block once, to the specification I want. So, now I've gone with 11.5 CR forged pistons and rods! :twisted:

Mahle Gold Series Pistons are one of the very few forged items that can be dropped into a standard H22A block without the need for resleeving - they are designed to be used with the standard FRM sleeves. Eagle H-Beam rods will accompany them in the engine and I'm back to the waiting game for them to turn up from the USA :D
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