Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Paulm » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:07 am

Ah ok in that case I'm not quite sure. Figures are as close as dammit to mine. Do you not have any breathers,on the rocker cover?
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby solman » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:03 am

You don't need to remove it Kam to change the seal, if you can get the pulley off you can change it while its in. The whole engine is linked with regards to the breathers, adding some to the cam cover should have the same affect. My compression is 220 across all cylinders, but then my engine has stock pistons and is broken in.
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:20 am

Yeah thats the problem mate, the pulleys no problem but the sump might be, not just to get to all the bolts underside but pulling it down and away as the outside frame edge sits mm's away from it, then theres the sump clearing the exhaust aswell, I think getting the oil pump out should be fine its just the stuff before it

To give you an idea of how tight stuff is, you know the large 10mm allen key bolt on the oil pump? You can't get to it, its called a mini for a reason :lol:

The current breathers are, single prelude block breather on the driver side (not shown on pic) and the rocker cover both plumbed into the catch can, I'm gonna try and add the second prelude block plug on the passenger side but the problem is clearance - there is none!

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I had to spin the vtec oil feed 45 degrees as I couldn't get the oil filter off, daz obviously thought there is more space back there then he thought - nope! That now means the oil pressure assembly sits infront of the passenger side freeze plug :(

I'm gonna have a good look at things first for clearance before I start moaning like a biaatch on here :arrow:
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Paulm » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:40 pm

The problem using that side is that it has been known to fill the catch can up rather quickly. I'd go with breathers on the rocker, although that oil seal looks more likely the culprit than a breather issue
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:21 pm

It's just the amount of smoke that was coming out the catch can filter was worrying me, the most it did was 4k in second gear on the rollers and it was like that after only about half hour of mapping which I can't believe is normal

Yeah the leak could be that the seal has given away but as Daz built the bottom end I would guess the seal was placed right but the crankcase pressure is still quite high hence me looking at installing the other block breather plug

Silly question but isn't getting the oil/vapour out meant to be the thing here? I mean that's the goal ain't it? Should I just vent them to ground instead?
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby solman » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:09 pm

The aim is to release the pressure in the crankcase from gasses which will occur, if you don't vent these could cause blow past the rings, in a standard car these gases aren't vented to atmosphere they are burned again as the PCV vents back into the intake, this is greener and a closed system (if you like) but this has a negative effect in terms of performance as your basically contaminating your fuel mixture, so you vent these gases out and catch the vapour in the can because the vapour contains all sorts of stuff you ideally don't want back in your oil and hanging around the engine.

The only reason manufactures do this is because like everything you can't burn all the fuel in the mixture, just like you can't create a perfect 100% seal on the rings, so you mix it back in the intake and burn it again so a second bang for your buck. Think of it like two pumps, you've got the fuel mixture pumping the cylinders up and down but as a direct effect of this you've got these pressurized gasses in the case doing the same thing, faster you pump those pistons the higher the pressure in the case gets. Now I've confused myself I will go and sit down, I'm sure you can get it sorted Kam, I'd be exploring the option of venting the front of the cam cover first its easier and will have the same affect. If you want some emergency venting bung a hose on the dipstick, I sometimes do this on track days :)
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:38 pm

I didnt mean I was gonna block up any vents (still keeping the rocker cover vent and will now have two block breather plugs) I just meant should I vent the pipes to the ground somewhere and ditch the catch can altogether as it still acts as a slight restriction whereas a pipe just vents from the off?

Its probably not the right thing to do morally but I've got a vtec engine in a mini so any morals went out the window a looooong time ago! :twisted:
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:45 pm

solman - are you saying I can change the crank seal in house without taking the oil pump off? (which would be an awesome help right now)

I'm not sure if I read that right earlier :? its just my sump aint coming off as the frame is in the way, I was gonna remove that then pull the pump off complete, but the sumps a no go

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I can get the crank pulley off no problemos, how do prise that seal out though?
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Paulm » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:58 am

Kam wrote:I didnt mean I was gonna block up any vents (still keeping the rocker cover vent and will now have two block breather plugs) I just meant should I vent the pipes to the ground somewhere and ditch the catch can altogether as it still acts as a slight restriction whereas a pipe just vents from the off?

Its probably not the right thing to do morally but I've got a vtec engine in a mini so any morals went out the window a looooong time ago! :twisted:


No, put one or two extra breathers on the front if the rocker cover, really don't bother with the 2nd block port, have you not read the original b20 thread on crxuk? If you just put a hose to ground it will end up acting as a syphon and dump all your oil, I don't see what restriction a catch can has?
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:18 am

I can't get on crx-uk as I've signed up but no activation email, emailed them again but still nothing after a few months so I've given up with them :roll:

The reason I'm only using the original rocker cover breather at the rear is because my rocker cover has been powdercoated and Daz said if you put two breather pipes on the front then ideally they should be welded on not bolted on, it's impossible to get it welded now without ruining it so I'm gonna have to try and bolt two breather pipes on the front......with a load of hondabond....
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby solman » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:16 am

To remove the old oil seal, put in 2 or 3 self taping screws into in it and pull the scews with some big pliers it may take a couple yanks, be careful not to screw into the oil pump itself, I used drywall screws as those blighters are evil sharp mothers and bite nicely so be careful on your fingers. Use some straight bit of PVC waste pipe and a nice load of proper silicone grease to push it in evenly be careful not to push the spring out from inside the seal.

My breathers off the rocker are threaded on, yes they leak a tiny tiny little bit but nothing that a little wipe every so often, I've only got 2 x 10mm on the front at some point I might enlarge these. When I was thinking of using the other rear port I was going to make a bent pipe to fit into the block and have it in such a way that it would not suck the oil out as it drains back to the sump I can't see how this wouldn't work myself but may take some trial and error.
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:37 am

Nice one mate that's a real help, I'll thread two breather pipes at the front of the rocker then and just keep the one at the back of the block, 12mm fittings should be fine for mine shouldn't it?

Also how have you currently left the factory rear rocker cover vent? Is it blocked up or plumbed somewhere or have you just put a filter on?
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby solman » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:57 am

I put this to catch can, I have a couple T pieces and have about 6 breathers hoses in all to the can, the cam cover goes back into the intake again anyway your best rid of that. If it was me I would try and avoid using filters, they will just get bunged up with vapour and muck, thats why I went for the mocal can, its breathable lid so no need for filters and no mess and has 4 pipe connector ports, however I've never had to empty it, it does a fair bit of mucky gunk sludge in the bottom so I really must somewhen!
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:25 pm

Cheers mate, those mocal breathers do look tasty (abiet pricey) even the mocal 1ltr version is smaller in height than my current cheap eBay jobbie which is only a 0.5ltr and with its filter on top and it's main body being thin and tall I think even the 2ltr mocal might fit - looks like you get what you pay for........
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:16 pm

Ok, whats the first thing you do when you get back from the rolling road after its running ok?

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Yep, start taking it apart! :(

Taken the exhaust off as I've got myself a wideband sensor which I'm gonna drill in somewhere where theres room

Gonna take the inlet off as I need to re-route my rear block breather pipe as I can't get to it errrm topside or bottom side!

Also my air filter cone location is as useful as a chocolate teapot with it being so high its touching the bonnet so its grabbing all the heat as the heat can't escape anywhere, gonna try and route it errrm somewhere, god knows where, room I need more room! :roll:

The amount of smoke coming out the catch can was worrying, but I've only got the one rear block breather pipe and the factory rocker cover pipe both going into the catch can - this is no way gonna be enough, so for starters I'm getting a bigger catch can and getting some more venting pipes going as........

......I've got a leak it was weeping at the rollers but couldn't tackle it then so had a good look back home and its as I thought.......

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.....the crank seal is leaking :(

I can't blame Daz who built the bottom end as he said you need two rocker cover breather pipes and the ports need to be welded in, as my rocker cover was already powercoated this weren't gonna happen, but as its blowing the seal and it still needs more venting which I think must be the reason for all the catch can smoke I'm gonna drill and get a couple of vent pipes in there, I'm not paying for this to be powercoated again so its gonna be hondabond to the rescue!!! ;)

I don't really have the room for the breather pipes to route round to the front so need to drill the rear section of the rocker cover, anyone know if I drill all the way through including the baffle or leave that inside plate free???

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Still fun - borderline though :|
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