Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:07 am

Just a quickie update (as quick as my usual quick ones!)

Had a heads up my exhaust was sitting way too low so had a look at it, when I had the manifold made for the b16 before I thought it would be ok for the b20 but I got the guys to add some extra length just incase, turns out this added extra was hitting the bends in the Y piece so preventing it from moving any further up

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So chopped off the extension bits and tried it again

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This is the furthest I can move it up before the flexi section hits the rear mount plate

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5mm to be precise! :shock: its gonna knock but I'll try and ignore it.....

I still need to raise the ride height, its currently sitting on new donuts but the hi-los are wound down to the bottom (to aid fitting) so the gap in the rear arch is only about 45mm

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That gap will be like it was before, near standardish!

Also played around with the air filter, can't get it any tighter so I'm hoping the bonnet can still shut! :roll:

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Gonna get some oil in next then tackle the valve clearances, I still need to fit the catch can/crank breather can but I aint got no room, its only a 0.5 ltr jobbie so might just keep it on the passenger seat :lol:
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:05 pm

Not much of an update........still waiting on parts.........

All I've done is to make a bracket to house the crank breather box, its only a 0.5ltr jobbie but I've run out of room in the engine bay so mounted it in the only space I could find which was high enough!

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Yes I know it looks close to the tyre but don't worry - cos I'm not! :lol: it should be fine, I think.....not sure how and where I'm gonna be able to route both the hoses to it but like usual I'll worry about that another time!

The other reason I've put it there is because of the drain plug on it......

Other update is I've got oil pressure but I'm still waiting on some hoses and HT leads and other bits n bob so I can plumb up the breather box and cooling system and get this fired up, was hoping they would arrive today but no, hopefully tomorrow......

I know I don't need the cooling system plumbed in to fire it up but I need to bed the rings in on first start-up so I need it plumbed in

Also I've lost my oil filler cap! Got one on order but if its not here on start up then its gonna be some gaffer tape and a heavy object on top - should work just as good :D
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:06 pm

Had most of the parts come through today - apart from my HT leads :(

Hooked up the coolant lines and the breather box, just need to pick up a few more jubilee clips to finish it off

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Chucked in some fuel and got pressure but found a fuel leak under the car, spent a couple of hours sodding about with fixing that up, not sure how that leaked happened as the fuel lines under the car aint been touched? anyways its all done, just need to play around with the fuel pressure regulator and get the right psi showing

Coolant is in, found a novel way of doing it, as I was building the coolant pipes up around the block/head I was filling them up as I went! :lol: got 4.5 litres in already, will top when its running

Just temporary held the coolant expansion bottle in place, twisted welding wire works well ;)

My replacement oil filler cap is gonna be a few days so popped down the breakers and picked up one off a sohc

Hopefully my HT leads will turn up tomorrow, other than that its all ready to fire up (hopefully)

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In the meantime......more impatient waiting.......
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby lxstuart » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:33 pm

Tight?
Doesn't look like it to me.

You could easily squeze an apple in there, maybe a tin of tuna too.
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SmithYo wrote:bollocks to wd40.... bita spit normally works a charm ;)

crazyasswhiteboi wrote:was worth the effort, just needed a little wriggling when putting in...


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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:23 pm

Did somebody order a b20?

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Just bedding the rings in hence making sure it don't idle for the first 10 minutes, its a bit on the loud side! garage was shaking full monty! neighbours must've wondered WTF its only a little mini! :lol:

Plugs were soaking wet with fuel after so need to sort out the mapping but as I ain't got a scooby with that kinda stuff I'll leave it to someone else

After about half hour of investigation I found shall I say a 'bit' of an oil leak? turns out someone forgot to plug up the inlet side of the cam cover behind the dizzy.....

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Nice one numpty, no kfc for you tonight!

As I'm on my todd here I took a precautional method just incase my hand got fatigued whilst blipping the throttle spindle to bed the rings in, an open drivers side window and a mop and some making tape!

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If my hand got tired I just reached inside - sorted and the roof lining is looking like new aswell! :lol:

Its a bit hit n miss here at the moment, its nice it started up and I did what I can about the new rings but it don't hold idle, plugs are soaking wet with fuel so need to sort this map malarky out, I'm using bigger injectors now aswell.....

On a more positive note I picked up my second radiator from the guys, they have done a cracking job as usual and mounted the two aprilia rsv fans, haynes manual is squared up for reference

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I won't plumb it in now, I'll see how the main rad copes, I still don't think the main rad will be enough in traffic but we'll see

Next job - less kfc
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:40 pm

Ok, after yesterday and the plugs getting soaked after cranking I decided to change the injectors, I did have some RC 370cc's installed but as the map I'm using is my old b16 one I put my old b16 injectors in (240cc) and cranked it over

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Still can't get it to idle, and if you hold the throttle its splutters a bit, took the plugs out for a check

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Not wet (thank god) but full of soot/carbon/black stuff whatever you call it! wipes clean away with your finger, not sure what that means

I'm gonna keep these 240cc's in for the time being, not sure if they are getting maxxed out but obviously the 370cc's are wet fouling the plugs
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:26 am

Wow! what a complete pandemonium day! Why can't I have a normal quiet life :(

Had the day off work and an early dentist appointment, got back mouth all numb and dribbling away (nice) so sitting down chilling out (and dribbling) with no plans today then the phone rings and its the tuners, my car is booked in on the 17th with them so I'm thinking they are calling to cancel it and move it further away

"Kam, we've had a cancellation today can you bring your car up?"

"What! you having a giraffe or something! car aint ready for a rolling road or a trailor and I got no trailor?"

"Well see what you can do, its there if you want it?"

"Let me make some calls first......."

Call up the trailor company, I'm booked for 17th can I have it NOW, yes - sorted!

Call up my mate, are you working as I need a hand, no he's not working - sorted!

Call up tuners, I'll be there this afternoon!

Put the phone down and it rings again, its honda saying my parts have arrived - sorted! run down there and get back and put them on and fill up the gearbox oil, then get a delivery pop through the door, my brake bleeding kit has arrived - sorted! bled the clutch slave cylinder then think about bleeding the brakes........nah I aint got time to do the brakes, who needs em!

Raised up the ride height so it can get onto the trailor...........see later.......

Finish off some last minute jobs and look at the car, this aint ready for a rolling road! 17th would've been nice and chilled but doing this in a few hours is crazy! mate pops round and we load up the mini with EVERYTHING as I aint got a scooby what to expect

All I wanted from today was for the car to start up and idle and move under its own power, wasn't bothered about anything else

After some last minute struggles we got there late afternoon

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Gave them the specs and told them its got a 68mm throttle body with an AEM fuel rail with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and my b16 injectors and walbro 255 fuel pump, I will put the 370's injector in another time, not important right now, just want it running, so they punch in the numbers and get to work

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After a few minutes its starting up and idling sweet, but at about 25mph its making a horrid metallic rotational noise under load? they stop and we jack up and have a good look round, nothing obvious but one of the guys says your driveshaft angles look extreme? I said yeah thats an allspeed frame they are like that, he says yeah I've seen a few before but yours look too extreme? after some head scratching he asks have you raised the ride height? I say yeah they are new donuts so were at the lowest setting to fit them in and I cranked them up after, then it hit me, I raised them up even higher earlier on just incase it didn't clear my garage ramp and getting it on the trailor

They were a bit on the high side, so we cranked them down and ran it again, noise all gone - sorted, so they carry on doing there stuff, in the meantime my crankcase/oil catch can is starting to worry me with its dissipating method????? is this normal for a b20? anyone know?

http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg25 ... rtup12.mp4

Other than that the engines running sweet and sounding sweet (loud!) and everything is going a bit too well for my liking and luck.......

http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg25 ... rtup13.mp4

Then.........my luck sets in......BANG SCREEEEEEEEEECH and the steering wheel rips out from his arm and the passenger wheel LOCKS UP! what the hell! switch engine off and head scratching time.....not good!

Pass wheel is locked solid, jack it up and no change, no movement, start hearing scary things around me "driveshaft has locked up or snapped" "wheel bearings have collapsed" not feeling so chirpy at this point! everything is hot to touch on the driveshaft, the gaitor, the flange etc

We undo the driveshaft nut and the drive flange aint turning or coming off whatsoever??? its literally welded onto the hub, this is where I start to panic, how do we get it back on the trailor with a locked wheel? how do I repair this without taking it apart as I can't get it on or off the trailor? not good

Then steve does a little trick for a few minutes (with a sledgehammer!) and the drive flange frees up! and we undo the straps and push it off the rollers and it starts to roll! Sweet! We call it quits there, but the main thing is the car moves under its own power so I drive it onto the trailor (my first drive in 16 months!) also its 99% mapped for driving to put some miles on the car, need to get it about 1000 miles on it with 5k max revs and loads etc then I'll take it back

I'm gonna take the passenger hub apart tomorrow and am guessing I'll find my wheel bearings in pieces, these were genuine timken bearings from minispares aswell (the only ones I will use) so I'll investigate tomorrow

In the meantime I will finish what I can to get a MOT ticket on this (hopefully) and get some miles on it

Also when I drove it off the trailor back home, I drove it from the main road to the garage (naughty naughty) and was able to spin 1st gear easy - good good! bring it on! ;)

Heres the result of the locked tyre on the rollers doing about 50mph, A539 yoko with only about 1000 miles on it, four square patches are down to the bottom

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I'm glad I didn't have my A048's on here......

And yes I'm still chuffed even after today, having dramas at rolling roads aint nothing new to me with this mini, does get tiresome after a while though.....

Although my dribbling has stopped from the dentist it started up again when I drove it into the garage, such a nice feeling, a much needed boost

Next job - who cares? :D
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby solman » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:28 am

Someone else will probably be along in a minute who knows a lot more than me but the rings won't be fully sealed and bedded in so you would see an increase in crankcase pressure and more venting intially which should ease.

Sounds sweet though ! You got those BC Cams in Kam?
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby johnrnugent » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:50 am

Sounds good Mr K.... :D

At least you know it runs and that's the main thing... :D :D
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Paulm » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:42 am

and certainly change the injectors up. tbh i would have put the larger ones in before getting it on the dyno. you'll be maxxing out the 240s
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:59 am

solman wrote:Someone else will probably be along in a minute who knows a lot more than me but the rings won't be fully sealed and bedded in so you would see an increase in crankcase pressure and more venting intially which should ease


Cheers mate, puts my mind at ease, yeah the BC's are in, still haven't degreed them in though :( just waiting for someone to pop round and do that for me, he knows a bit about DTA aswell so he will make sure its still running sweet after

Cheers John, theres was no black smoke at any point so was a bit happy about that as I thought I might have messed something up, Daz made up the block and I made up the head and bolted it together

Paul, the next time I go to the rollers I'll be taking the RC 370's with me, I didn't have time to install them before and didn't fancy changing it whilst I was there as time was getting on, I just wanted it up and running, he punched in the numbers on his computer and said something like they'll be working at 90% or something but as the car won't be going past 5k max they will be fine

They also said I need a cold air feed, as my filter sits high up its getting way too warm, problem is I don't think they understand there is no where for it to go, there is no 68mm gap around it to pipe it anywhere - I need a bigger engine bay! :evil:

Also worringly my rad seemed to hold up - not good, I've got my custom second rad already here still to fit which costs me a pretty penny, I'll be :evil: if I don't need it.....will see whats it like out on the road first as I won't have that bloody big fan on there all the time which you get at the rollers! :shock:
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:05 pm

Just done a compression test, got the car warm (not upto temp) and plugged away and throttle in, bear in mind my cams are not degreed in so I don't know if everything is nice and sealed up in there

Cyl:

1 218
2 202
3 202
4 210

Obviously psi and not bar!

Errm ok, but again I'll have to do it with the cams done up properly, just looked at the 'teg manual and it shows 280 nominal and 28 max difference (looked at that its not like theres a b20 manual around)

Also got a very small leak behind the pulley, this is after about 5mins of running - crank seal

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Not sure what to make of that? Maybe I need the second prelude breather plug next to the other one in the block? problem is there aint really any room on that side :(

I'm gonna whip off the inlet and have a good look for space, I think I'm gonna need both plugs there.....
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby solman » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:38 pm

What advise did Daz give you about breaking it in? I wouldn't expect the compression to be right until that process is finished, but what the hell would I know, never changed a piston in my life, I'd be speaking with him. That oil leak although it pains me to say looks like its could be coming from the oil pump crank seal, did you fit this? I snagged mine when I put it together, its easily done and eventually it was pouring out on mine, I had to replace it recently the tactic is to drive it home with a bit of PVC pipe so its pressed evenly (Honda have a special tool for this and cam seals) and some proper silicone grease, seems to be holding fine now and no leak thank goodness. I know that puddle well :( It sprays it everywhere as well off the pulley, once your in VTEC your bay will be like mine!

It could of course be coming from further up, cam seals or the rocker gasket, if you don't seal it in the corners with some bonding the rocker will nearly always leak in those corners.
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Paulm » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:54 pm

yep as solman says. no need for the 2nd breather. itrs may be 280 but you dont have an itr so the figures wont be the same. on my b20 (cold engine) i have itr spec pistons and itr cams on a stock b16 head, im pushing around 220psi with throttle wide open
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Re: Not Del sol but B20b/vtec going into a mini.........

Postby Kam » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:35 am

solman wrote:That oil leak although it pains me to say looks like its could be coming from the oil pump crank seal, did you fit this? I snagged mine when I put it together, its easily done and eventually it was pouring out on mine, I had to replace it recently the tactic is to drive it home with a bit of PVC pipe so its pressed evenly (Honda have a special tool for this and cam seals) and some proper silicone grease, seems to be holding fine now and no leak thank goodness


Daz built the bottom end, I built the head and put them together, the leak is from the crank seal, I remember when you told me about yours leaking and you was gonna add a second breather plug as you felt the single one wasn't doing enough, thats what I thought when I saw it leak from there. I text Daz yesterday and told him about the leak and the excess smoke out the catch can, he said to try it with the second breather plug installed

I could just change the crank seal and see how it is but Daz put that together so I'm guessing theres still way too much pressure down there hence it blowing through the seal and all that excess smoke out the catch can, and that was doing about 20mph on the rollers....

Paulm wrote:yep as solman says. no need for the 2nd breather. itrs may be 280 but you dont have an itr so the figures wont be the same. on my b20 (cold engine) i have itr spec pistons and itr cams on a stock b16 head, im pushing around 220psi with throttle wide open


I've got RS machines 84mm ITR pistons and buddyclub spec III cams with a standard ITR head with a very light skim, thats why I thought it would be hitting 'teg numbers or at least close to it even though its not run in yet

I'm gonna get a new crank seal anyway, I'm just hoping I can remove my sump and oil pump in house as the frame sits close to everything, you can see the frame running underneath and around the crank pulley........

Image

......otherwise it means engine out :(
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